Euroleague Power Rankings: Penultimate Regular-Season Game Edition

December 6, 2012

BallinEurope hasn’t done this lately, so on the eve of the 2012-13 Euroleague season’s penultimate round of regular-season play, the BiE EL Power Rankings run below. Quick recap of the rules: The rankings are based on the way current teams are *trending* and not necessarily overall quality. Recent play in Euroleague games is the most important consideration in these ultimately subjective rankings, but play in other leagues was also factored in.

Who’s riding waves of prosperity and who’s going under for the third time? Read on and enjoy this week’s slate of games!

1. FC Barcelona (8-0 in Euroleague play; 6-4 in Liga Endesa). Though not looking as vulnerable as when getting off to an 0-2 start for 2012-13 in Spain, Barça is hardly perfect … yet. More than their youth talent’s steady rise and excellent, multi-talented backcourt depth, the Blaugrana have been helped Euroleague-wise by a pretty easy schedule over the past month: In four wins by an average victory margin of 23.75 points, Barcelona has beaten Beşiktaş, Lietuvos Rytas, Brose Bamberg and an oddly out-of-sorts CSKA Moscow – in the meanwhile losing to Caja Laboral and Valencia back in Spain.

While new BiE fave Ante Tomic was awesome enough last week so that Barcelona need not fear Partizan without suiting up Erazem Lorbek, but representing their single biggest challenge of this season thus far in on the slate for the final week of the EL regular season in…

2. CSKA Moscow (7-1 EL; 6-1 VTB United League; 5-0 PBL). Said CSKA coach Ettore Messina on the most recent “Taking the Charge” podcast: “I think we are getting closer to what we should be in terms of sharing the ball offensively and moving fast and finding roles. I think we can improve defensively once we get a better understanding of one another. But I see the team also coming together in terms of chemistry – not only on the court but off the court.”

Considering that CSKA’s thus far tops in defensive rebounding, second in points allowed and third in overall shooting in the Euroleague while playing .900 ball for the 2012-13 season, this statement may best be translated as: “Look out, the Red Army is looking like a triple-crown threat again!”

3. Real Madrid (6-2 EL; Liga Endesa 10-0). Los Blancos shrugged off the hard-fought loss at Panathinaikos in week six, getting the offensive machine right back up to full power to blow out a hapless BC Khimki the following in one of the big league’s grandest offensive explosion this season. And in the subsequent match against Fenerbahçe Ülker, Real was forced to ugly things up a bit as Madridistas were cheered by Nikola Mirotic, Marcus Slaughter and Felipe Reyes throwing some weight around in the paint – these guys can fly *or* slow the game down? Nice.

4. Olympiacos (6-2 EL; 8-0 Greek League). Addition by subtraction: A couple of bad games culminating in a 79-61 loss to Žalgiris in which the Reds were essentially non-existent in the second half had Joey Dorsey sounding off about the team’s direction. Dorsey was history soon thereafter, the Reds haven’t lost a game anywhere since and the team’s incredible run going back to 2010-11 (when undefeated in the Greek League until the championship series) looks fit to continue.

5. Panathinaikos (5-3 EL; 6-2 Greek League). Forget the record. Since the regrettable loss versus BC Khimki in week 5 – for which they’ll get a chance to redeem themselves next week – the Greens have gone 7-0 overall. Forget the two-point wins over Cantù; in November, new-look Panathinaikos has found the chemistry and has learned how to close out games. And Dimitris Diamantidis is in career shape again with three consecutive seven- or eight-assist games in the ‘League.

6. Montepaschi Siena (5-3 EL; 8-2 Serie A). These guys were supposed to be showing weakness this year, dammit! How is David Moss shooting 56%? Where and when did Bobby Brown learn to pass – not to mention drive an offense – like this? Who would’ve thought this low-budget might go into 2013 on a seven-Euroleague game winning streak? This is why we watch the games, BiE supposes…

7. Žalgiris Kaunas (6-2 EL; 5-1 VTB). That lack of noise coming from Kaunas is the sound of hundreds of thousands of Žalgiris fans holding their breath after the Greens’ worst game of the season came within five points of costing them the EL Group A lead. Luckily for Joan Plaza, Vladimir Romanov is likely too distracted by the historically-critical financial woes of his Heart of Midlothian to fire his team’s coach kneejerkedly. Plenty of time for that later.

8. BC Khimki Moscow region (5-3 EL; 6-1 VTB; 3-0 PBL). The only team that’s been able to stop Khimki lately is Real Madrid. Incidentally, is it too soon to start up the “Zoran Planinic (13.1 ppg, 5.6 apg, 3.9 rbg, 0.8 spg and 17.9 average performance index rating) for All-Euroleague Team” campaign?

9. Unicaja Malaga (6-2 EL; 5-4 Liga Endesa). The Euroleague’s biggest surprise will likely enter the Top 16 round as the Cinderella story of 2012-13. Last week’s loss to Siena could represent a reality check after an 8-0 run in the EL, but this side has consistently shown itself to be greater than the sum of parts this year. A nice veteran workman-like core of Earl Calloway, James Gist, Luka Zoric, Marcus Williams and Krunoslav Simon has proven wonderfully consistent enought to make Kosta Perovic’s disappointing season hardly noticeable. Plus, the team can still boast the exciting 21-year-old Augusto Cesar Lima off the bench.

10. Maccabi Tel Aviv (6-2 EL; 7-1 Ligat Ha’Al). The slow seesawing of Maccabi’s 2012-13 campaign appeared to be on the upswing again after consecutive two-point losses with an albeit labored win over Elan Chalon last week. However, the indefinite suspension of Guy Pnini – not to mention a critical mass of bad karma – cannot be a positive harbinger of things to come.

11 (tie). Anadolu Efes Pilsen (5-3 EL; 7-1 TBL)
11 (tie). Fenerbahçe Ülker (4-4 EL; 7-1 TBL)
11 (tie). Beşiktaş (4-4 EL; 4-4 TBL). Though all three Turkish teams will likely make the playoffs – Efes and Beşiktaş are in; Fenerbahçe needs one win or one Cantù loss to advance – none have done so in impressive fashion due to injury (Fenerbahçe), roster imbalance (Fenerbahçe and Efes) or straight-up rotation instability (Beşiktaş). A poor year in Euroleague for Turkey thus far, particularly given that two of these were among the top five favorites to take the championship.

14 (tie). Brose Baskets Bamberg (4-4 EL; 9-1 BBL)
14 (tie). Partizan Belgrade (4-4 EL; 8-3 Adriatic League). Assuming that Bamberg takes out Lietuvos Rytas tomorrow night – and BiE believes they will, the week 10 matchup between these two teams would determine the no. 4 seed in Group D and thus the last team to advance to the Top 16 round, regardless of the Partizan-Barcelona outcome tonight. Either way, an exciting and youthful side advances while Euroleague fans get a sweet win-or-go-home game.

Derrick Byars: The answer. Maybe.

16. Alba Berlin (4-4 EL; 7-2 BBL). Is Derrick Byars really the answer?

17. Armani Milano (3-5 EL; 5-5 Serie A). Let’s see, two of Milano’s three Euroleague wins have come against Cedevita Zagreb … they’re 1-5 in the last six … losses in the last two games would give Sergio Scariolo his worst-ever single-season EL mark … a .500 standing in Italy would represent his worst regular-season record since 1991-92 … looking for the positive spin here…ah, here it is! Milano could still back into the Top 16 round at 3-7 (!) if Zagreb and Baskonia both lose this week, and Zagreb wins in week 10. In this eventuality, should the Armanis be proud?

18. Cedevita Zagreb (2-6 EL; 7-4 ABA)
19. Caja Laboral Baskonia (2-6 EL; 7-3 Liga Endesa)
20. Cantù (2-6 EL; 6-4 Serie A)
21. Lietuvos Rytas (1-7 EL, 3-4 VTB). Call this group the mathematical survivors. The advancement possibilities for each, as far as BiE can make out break down as follows: Cedevita Zagreb must win both games while Milano loses at least one; Baskonia moves on with one win and at least one Milano loss; Cantù must win both remaining games and Fenerbahçe must lose both; finally, L. Rytas must win both of its games while Partizan loses this week and wins against Alba Berlin in week 10.

22. Union Olimpia (2-6 EL; 5-6 ABA). Ultimately, Union Olimpija probably doesn’t deserve this standing. On the other hand, when your sixth man’s Sasu Salin…

23. Like Olimpija and its two victories over Cantù, Elan Chalon (2-6 EL; 7-2 LNB) proved one thing about Euroleague ball in 2012-13: You have to do more to advance than top a lower-rung team twice.

24. Right, Asseco Prokom (1-7 EL, 6-3 PSK)?

Dec 6, 2012ballineurope

This post was published on December 6, 2012

Comments: 74

Mike
12 years ago
They use VTB games to count as Russian League games. So I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to count them as separate wins, even though the Russian clubs are doing that.
Reply Cancel
skoru
12 years ago
Partizan is 2-6 in EL.
Reply Cancel
Erik K
12 years ago
First Romain Sato, and now Mike Batiste………….

http://www.eurohoops.net/2012/12/dribbling/14544
Reply Cancel
Petros
12 years ago
The death of Panathinaikos, the biggest club in modern European basketball history?

http://www.talkbasket.net/7446-panathinaikos-president-steps-down.html

If this is the end of current Panathinaikos, this is truly a sad day for European basketball, as the premiere European basketball club of the modern era (since the Final Four started) would be relegated back to being run by the PAO multi-sport amateur club, and could only support a budget based on the basketball club section’s revenues (about €8-10 million euros).

Which means they would have to disband most of the players from the current team……..
Reply Cancel
- Vaidas
  12 years ago
  about €8-10 million euros) ?!? Are you kidding me? That is still more than many EL clubs. Greeks had it going easy for years, cheating and mooching off the rest of Europe. But now, the day of reckoning has come.
  Reply Cancel
  - Latsos
    12 years ago
    8-10 million euros, what the multi-sport amateur club can afford for the basketball section, without a new owner or sponsor would not be enough to keep the current players. They would have to let go of Diamantidis also without any question.
    
    That’s still a much bigger budget than most European clubs, but it’s on the low side for Euroleague. No way could they put together a team that could make it past Top 16 with such a budget.
    
    But the current owner is offering the club for free……to anyone that will take over the current team. Considering that, and how big of a name the club has, I am sure they can find someone to take the team over. Either a rich owner that wants a new hobby, or a big company to sponsor.
    
    This is probably the biggest name brand club in all of European basketball. And their current budget of 17 million euros isn’t that much for a very rich owner or a big company to maintain.
    Reply Cancel
Petros
12 years ago
The owner of Panathinaikos, Dimitris Giannakopoulos, on the issue:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvol23_yyyyyyyy-yyyyyyyyyyyyyy-yyyyyyyy-yyy-yyy-yyy-yyyyyyyyyyyy_sport?search_algo=2#.UMJrYiLbi1Q
Reply Cancel
G
12 years ago
Zalgiris is 7th, below PAO and Siena? You must be kidding 🙂
As PAO is basically guaranteed to be 1st or 3rd in Group A, we hope we can beat Efes to get them in our Top-16 group (of course this is only a good thing if the information regarding their financial problems is true)
Reply Cancel
G
12 years ago
Also, Partizan & Brose are nowhere close to 4-4 and probably don’t deserve 14th place. Maccabi should be higher too, as they will probably win group B.
Reply Cancel
Erik K
12 years ago
Another epic failure of Gabe’s trolling……….

Efes’s coach on Jordan Farmar’s extreme recent struggles………

Mahmuti:

“The players who are called “stars” – it’s not me, but other people who called them stars – were not on the court mentally. They were only there physically. A week ago, we secured our place in the Top 16. But I think those stars were not here tonight, they were somewhere else! We knew how strong Caja Laboral was on the rebounds. We tried to balance it. But unfortunately, it was a totally terrible team performance. Nobody challenged them.”

—–

Once again, Gabe looks like one of the biggest idiots ever. Farmar, who Gabe said was “clearly by far the best and most dominant player in Euroleague”, “will definitely for sure be the Euroleague MVP”, etc………….

this guy is playing so badly that his days in Efes are already numbered………..
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  lol His days are already numbered? Is that because he is their 2nd leading scorer and leading them in assists and helped the team advanced to the top 16 while Bourousis, from the same group is going to be watching the top 16 at home?
  
  Talk about not being a star. Not even being able to advance out of the Euroleague regular season. I guess being dominated on the boards by Nigeria was not a fluke after all from that bum Bourousis.
  Reply Cancel
Erik K
12 years ago
His coach was bad mouthing him in the press because he is playing like total shit. You spent months here claiming he would for sure be the best player in Euroleague. You era such a colossal asshole.

Bourousis was already named the best center of Europe. Good luck seeing Jordan Farnar win MVP like you GUARANTEED here.

And it’s also funny that you blame Bourousis for his team losing, when the team’s point guard Cook threw the game on purpose because his coach yelled at him.

So he missed free throws on purpose then stared at his coach and sent him a message.

Funny that you blame someone throwing a game on Bourousis. But then again you blame refs blown calls on him too. And you always get in your “can’t play against Africans” RACIST remarks in.

There is a special place in the bottom pits of hell for people like you.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  His coach is trying to motivate him for the top 16.
  
  Bourousis was named the best center of Europe? Liar. Please give link.
  
  Or so Bourousis couldn’t advance out of Euroleague regular season because someone else threw the game and he couldn’t advance out of the Olympic qualifying tournament because of the refs.
  
  The fact is that any team that has Bourousis as their starting center absolutely sucks and are total losers like Bourousis is. He is slow, nonathletic and can’t even jump. He might make an okay back-up center in Eurocup but any team that has him as a starting center in Euroleague or FIBA play is not going to advance far as has been shown this year.
  
  And I am glad the bottom pits of hell are reserved for me. I heard you get use to the heat, like a sauna.
  Reply Cancel
  - Gabe
    12 years ago
    The one positive thing that could come of this, is after Bourousis’ embarrassing performance against Nigeria where he got dominated inside by Diogu and company and now his pathetic Euroleague performance, not even making the top 16, Greek officials will realize that if they want Greece to have any success they can’t use that scrub as their starting center. Hopefully Greece can get Koufos to play with them this summer because if they have to rely on that stiff, Bourousis, they are not going anywhere, as witness by his performance this summer and in Euroleague.
    Reply Cancel
    - Nikos
      12 years ago
      Koufos is Greece’s third string center. Why would Greece replace Bourousis with Koufos over what you claim are defense and rebounding issues? It makes no sense. Bourousis is a much better rebounder and especially he is leaps and bounds better at post defense than Koufos is.
      
      Neither one of them can guard pick and roll, so what would be the advantage gained? What you are suggesting is a complete joke, and really exposes how truly stupid you are.
      
      None of Greece’s centers can guard pick and roll, because they are all huge players. That includes Koufos. The difference is that Bourousis is an extremely good post defender, while Koufos isn’t.
      
      Bourousis and Koufos are both area rebounders generally, but Bourousis is better without a doubt at rebounding than Koufos is because he absolutely locks down his position and boxes out his man. Koufos does not.
      
      You are suggesting that one game, where numerous long balls that came out to the 3 point line and got counted as offensive rebounds would be “proof” that Bourousis cannot rebound.
      
      You suggest a much worse defensive player than Bourousis to replace him to “solve Greece’s defensive problems”. You really are an unbelievably stupid individual.
      
      The rumors are that Greece might bring back Yannakis as coach, and if that is the case, Koufos might not even see the court, due to his complete lack of proper defense.
      
      You are a troll and a broken record. You have chased away almost every single good poster from here. You have been asked by numerous people, politely to stop, and you refuse and just throw out more insults.
      
      If someone insults you back, or calls you racist after your racist comments and your personal taunts and insults, you get all angry and act like you are being abused. I’ve honestly never encountered a troll quite like you before.
      Reply Cancel
      - Gabe
        12 years ago
        Koufos is now a rotation player in the NBA. Bourousis couldn’t advance out of the Euroleague regular season. And it’s not just that pathetic showing against Nigeria that kept Greek out of the Olympics. How about their embarrassing 11th place finish in the 2010 World Championship where Bourousis grabbed a total of 4 rebounds in the 8th finals match? Reyes had more than double that in the same amount of minutes. Or how about the game vs Russia where Bourousis had 5 pts and 3 rebounds?
        
        Greek has been an embarrassment on the international stage recently. And a big part of the problem is being dominated inside because of the scrub Bourousis. If you had any pride in Greek basketball you would want Bourousis to retire from the team and give a young player like Koufos a chance, he can’t do worse than Bourousis has. Koufoas plays day in and out against the best athletes in the world he is prepared. Bourousis, on the other hand, goes into these tournaments and looks like a big old man who is out of his league.
        Reply Cancel
    - Jack
      12 years ago
      Bourousis made Kevin Garnett his absolute bitch this season.
      
      Kosta Koufos could never in his life do that.
      
      You are the craziest hater I have EVER seen.
      Reply Cancel
      - Gabe
        12 years ago
        Are you talking about the game where the Celtics destroyed Milano by 30 points and Garnett played 12 minutes? It’s hard to make someone your bitch when you lose by 30 points. But I understand you’re so use to Bourousis being a loser that losing by 30 points is something to brag about.
        
        In the Olympics Diogu made Chandler his bitch. Yes his team lost by 83 points but he got the better of Chandler!
        Reply Cancel
    - NBA Guru
      12 years ago
      First of all, Kosta Koufos is not a “rotation player” in the NBA. He is a starter in the NBA. Second of all, he is the third string center of Greece, and he will be staying the third string center of Greece as long as Sofo and Bourousis are around.
      
      Third, it’s funny to see Gabe giving so much credence to Kosta Koufos. Funny indeed, considering that when Ohio State reporters as Koufos who is the best point guard he ever played with……..he said it was Vassilis Spanoulis, NOT Deron Williams.
      
      I am sure that after Hearing this, Koufos will now be one of the ones Gabe starts hating on. Anyway, Koufos also told Greek press that Bourousis is better than him and he learns from him every summer and he hopes he can become as good as him soon.
      
      Funny how Koufos himself thinks Bourousis is better……
      
      Finally, I am pretty sure that Bourousis isn’t Greece’s starting center either. I’m pretty sure that would be Schortsanitis. But of course, we can’t expect Gabe to ever get a single thing right.
      Reply Cancel
      - Gabe
        12 years ago
        A rotation player could still be a starter. He averages 21.7 mpg which is 7th on the team so he does not get starter minutes.
        
        Anyway I am just saying now it is time for Greece to retire Bourousis and give Koufos a chance. As I said before they can’t do any worse and they need young blood if they want to prevent their downfall from being even worse and not even qualifying for the World Championship this time.
        Reply Cancel
    - TB
      12 years ago
      There is absolutely no chance that you have ever seen either Koufos or Bourousis play basketball. Koufos is a nice young player, but Bourousis is way better than him.
      
      Greg Popovich said Bourousis was like prime Vlade Divac. If you think Koufos is as good as prime Vlade Divac, then you need to lay off the drugs. If you think your opinion holds more weight on this site than Greg Popovich’s, then you are off your rocker.
      Reply Cancel
      - Gabe
        12 years ago
        Liar! Show a link of Popovich saying that or it is a lie. I might as well claim Phil Jackson said that Bobby Brown is a Michael Jordan in his prime for making such an absurd statement.
        Reply Cancel
    - Cards
      12 years ago
      http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Greek-center-envisions-future-with-the-Spurs-848224.php
      
      Bourousis, a 6-foot-11 center, turned down a contract offer from the Spurs this summer.
      
      “I’m anxious to play, not only against Tim Duncan, but also against the whole team,” Bourousis, 25, said before tipoff. “I had two or three offers from other (NBA) teams, but if I decide to play in the NBA, it will be in this facility.”
      
      Bourousis wasn’t perfect – he missed 3 of 5 shots and committed four fouls – but he did nothing to alter the opinion Popovich formed when scouting him at the 2008 European Final Four in Berlin.
      
      “As soon as I saw him I started thinking: Vlade Divac,” Popovich said, recalling the former NBA star from Serbia. “His body language, his gait, the way he shoots, the way he moves on the floor … He’s good inside and outside. He runs the floor well, and he’s got great hands. He’s a very skilled young man.”
      
      ———————————————————————————————
      
      And once again, Gabe looks like the biggest moron to ever visit this website.
      Reply Cancel
      - Gabe
        12 years ago
        This again is an example of your exaggeration (lies). Where does he use the word “prime”? He never does. He simply says his style reminds of of Divac. He no way implies that he is as good as Divac. That is done all the time where some new player is compared to a former great. Like so and so’s game reminds me of Shawn Kemp or whoever.
        
        For you to take that and claimed Popovich said he was as good as Divac is just a twisting of the truth. And then you add the world “prime” which would really imply that he was comparing the two, but the fact of the matter is he never even used that word and you just totally made it up.
        
        This is a perfect example of you twisting the truth. Pop says that Bourousis game reminds him of Divac and you twist it around to the lie that Pop said Bourousis is as good as a prime Divac. Man you are really desperate.
        Reply Cancel
mike
12 years ago
Yeah, Bourousis sucks! Did he really say that, ” those Africans jump so high it’s not fair” ? That would be hilarious if he did. LOL
Reply Cancel
Michael
12 years ago
Os Davis, you need to put a stop to these blatantly racist comments by Gabe. It’s gotten completely out of hand. There is no place for this here.

if the racist comments continue, I won’t be posting here anymore, and will tell anyone I know who does the same.
Reply Cancel
- Os
  12 years ago
  @Michael — i’m trying to be as open with BallinEurope as far as letting people comment. I know that Gabe apparently riles up a lot of people, but i’m not sure he’s being racist per se. As far as i can tell, he does seem to be anti-Greek *team* right now, but not anti-Greek per se. Could you please email me with specific comments/links and if there’s a serious problem, something will be done. I wish you’d reconsider any decisions not to visit or comment BallinEurope.com any more, however. I’ll do my best to settle this situation, etc.
  
  Yours,
  
  Os.
  Reply Cancel
  - Gabe
    12 years ago
    @OS- I hope you mean by “lots of people” the same troll who posts under different names. By the way he posts on the website insidehoops as well. On that website you have to create a profile so you can’t post under different names (or if you did it would take a lot of effort). On insidehoops people can add to poster’s reputations or report their posts. This guys posts as “Euroleague” and has one of the lowest reputations on the whole board, has been banned various times, and the moderator has labeled him “crazed troll” which shows under his user name every time he posts. (my label is “I hit open 5 footers”)
    
    Anyway he has made the same accusation of me being racist on that site too and was laughed off the board and actually banned for a while so don’t be fooled.
    Reply Cancel
    - Stavros
      12 years ago
      I can confirm what Gabe is saying. I think Niko/Michael/Erik K. etc. need to be banned/reported to his ISP.
      Reply Cancel
      - Mike
        12 years ago
        I think you need to be reported for net stalking. To your IP.
        Reply Cancel
Michael
12 years ago
Gabe keeps saying things like, “Ioannis Africans jump too high Bourousis”, and “Ioannis I’m too slow to keep up with Africans Bourousis”, and things like,

“Euros or Greeks are all too slow to compete with Africans”. “They can’t jump and they can’t run and they are all slow, stiffs and get dominated by those superior Africans”.

Etc. It’s pretty clear what he is doing and the racism isn’t even remotely thinly veiled.
Reply Cancel
mike
12 years ago
What a bunch of lies. At least now you know what the site owner believes about your racist accusations which are patently ridiculous,
Reply Cancel
- Nikos
  12 years ago
  Saying that white players can’t play against black players because “they (blacks) jump too high and run too fast for the Euros (white guys)” is absolutely racist without any question whatsoever. Gabe has been saying things like that and MUCH WORSE for literally years here.
  
  But lately, it would be stated several times a day. It’s very offensive and it has no place here.
  
  And anyone that says and thinks that stuff is racist. PERIOD.
  Reply Cancel
TB
12 years ago
Koufos isn’t as good as Loukas Mavrokefalidis. The main reason he’s getting in Greece’s team is because Mavrokefalidis got suspended for his behavior. Otherwise, he would be getting selected instead of Koufos.

Just like he was actually in 2011, but he got suspended for his behavior, so that allowed Koufos into the team.

Actually, I’m not even sure that Koufos has a place secured over Dimitrios Mavroeidis and Ian Vougioukas. Koufos is much better than Mavroeidis on offense, but Mavroeidis is much better on defense, and he’s playing in a big club now. Koufos is more athletic, but then again, Mavroeidis is a coach’s player, so who knows.

Vougioukas is just absolutely annihilating the Eurocup, and looks like he is easily the best player in that whole league so far. He can’t guard anyone, but neither can Koufos for the most part. Koufos is definitely more athletic, but Vougioukas is like 5 times better in the low post than Koufos is. Vougioukas might even be better in the low post than Sofo is. He very well could be the best low post player in Europe.

So the place of Koufos even being on the team, if everyone is healthy, is not even necessarily secured. If Mavroekefalidis would play, then probably he would go over Koufos. Because Mavrokefalidis is just an incredibly skilled big man.

Gabe is the typical example of an NBA only fan. Koufos (a nice player) must be the best Greece has, since he plays in the NBA. Gabe does not have the mental capacity to grasp that Greece is loaded with good centers that could play in the NBA.

Glyniadakis played in the NBA, and only left there on his own choice for personal reasons. There are much better Greek centers than Glyniadakis.

There are better Greek centers than Koufos, and he starts in the NBA. This whole “playing in the NBA determines how good you are” way of thinking is so retarded, and it’s one of the main reasons why NBA only fans are considered to be such a joke. That and the whole, “we are world champions” nonsense.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Well you know if you are the champion of the best league in the world you can consider youself the world champions. sorry
  Reply Cancel
  - Cards
    12 years ago
    Well you know if you only play in a domestic league of US/Canada you cannot be considered world champions.
    
    SORRY.
    Reply Cancel
    - Gabe
      12 years ago
      The same thing is done in the NFL, where the champions are called world champs. If you are the champions of the best league in the world than you can call yourself the world champs.
      
      I mean jeez. I assume you also complain Miss Universe to be a joke because there are no martians. Get a life.
      Reply Cancel
      - Erik
        12 years ago
        There is a not a chance in hell that Gabe’s IQ is one point over 65.
        Reply Cancel
Kanto
12 years ago
LMFAO

I just saw Bourousis on a Greek television show saying that he will play in the NBA next year.

hahahahahah

Poor Gabe. Guy never knew when to keep his fucking big mouth shut.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Good. I’m not saying he could not play in the NBA. He would make a good third string center, sort of in the mold of Hamed Haddadi. I just don’t think Greece should use him as their starting center.
  Reply Cancel
  - Derek
    12 years ago
    God damn you are a fucking asshole. These Euros are right. You are a racist bastard. Bourousis would be a starting center in the NBA. I am 100% an NBA fan, but this guy is an absolute BEAST.
    
    I have seen him complete destroy NBA centers in international competition. The guy is BEAST and them some. These comments from you iced it for me. The Euros are right. You are a racist and you are trying to incite some kind of incident on this website through stirring up racial hatred.
    Reply Cancel
    - Gabe
      12 years ago
      That’s funny because I watched him get destroyed Ike Diogu in international competition. You are nuts to think he would start in the NBA. At best he would be a back-up center on a very bad NBA team. Any good NBA team would have him as a 3rd center if he could even make the team.
      Reply Cancel
      - Bourousis Is Better Than Howard
        12 years ago
        Why does this site allow this guy Gabe to ruin this site with his trolling? I don’t understand it? He has ruined the whole site.
        
        Bourousis is probably better than ANY center in the NBA and this guy says he could only be a third string center in the NBA. I honestly cannot think of a single center in the NBA that is as good as Bourousis is.
        
        Dwight Howard sure the hell is no Bourousis.
        Reply Cancel
      - Gabe
        12 years ago
        Now let me get this right. This is the same Bourousis who couldn’t even advance his team to the top 16 of Euroleague?! Which means his stats won’t count, which means it will be the 4th year in a role the Bourousis couldn’t even make an all-Euroleague team. I mean we’re talking about Euoleague here. Bourousis is not even one of the top centers in Euroleague for Christ’s sake. It’s not like he’s competing against Howard, Bynum and Chandler! He’s competing against the likes of Krstic, Batiste and Splitter and they are selected over him!
        
        I mean this is a guy who got dominated by the front court of Diogu and Aminu brothers! The only team he could start on in North America is a D-League team, which if he comes to the NBA I’m sure he would be assigned to one for a while.
        Reply Cancel
Gabe Is Going To Hell
12 years ago
Bourousis > Marc Gasol

Bourousis > Nikola Pekovic

Interestingly enough, for well over a year at this site, Gabe claimed that Nikola Pekovic was a “scrub” and “not good enough to play in the NBA”. Then for another year, he claimed here that Pekovic would “never amount to anything more than a backup in the NBA”.

Of course, now Gabe pretends he never spent two years here saying that stuff. But he did.

Gabe’s credibility = ZERO

Bourousis is much better Pekovic, Mozgov, M. Gasol, Gortat. He’s better than the European centers that are in the NBA.

One last thing, people like Gabe go to hell.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Ike Diogu > Bourousis
  
  Enough said.
  Reply Cancel
Ike Diogu plays in China
12 years ago
Bourousis has outplayed Yao Ming head to head

Bourousis has dominated Kevin Garnett head to head

Bourousis has dominated Joakim Noah head to head

Bourousis has dominated Chris Kaman head to head

Bourousis has dominated Nenad Krstic head to head

Bourousis has outplayed Dwight Howard head to head

Bourousis has the resume and the FACTS of GAMES BEING PLAYED that is PROOF that he’s the best center on the planet Earth.

Ike Diogu plays in China………….

NBA and European basketball clubs don’t like Ike..but Gabe thinks he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Just like a gambler says “read it and weep”
  http://london2012.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/12/olym/p/gid/A/grid/13/rid/9051/sid/6229/game.html
  You have to click boxscore.
  
  I just showed you one box score of Bourousis getting dominated head to head against Ike Diogu. Their points were the same and Diogu had 7 more rebounds including 4 offensive rebounds while Bourousis could not grab one offensive rebound against the mighty front court of Nigeria.
  
  I don’t know about the other players but I assume they are all lies. For example the one time he played against Garnett his team lost by 30. The time against Howard Bourousis’ team lost by 23, Howard made his only shot and had two more rebound and one more steal and blocked shot that Bourousis. So those two examples when you said Bourousis dominated Howard and Garnett his team lost by more than 22 points!
  
  In the game against Noah Bourousis’ team was eliminated in the quarter-finals. It seems that the FACTS of GAMES BEING PLAYED that is PROOF that Bourousis is a loser. What ever team has him as a center loses and most of the time loses big.
  
  The one example you gave where his team won was against Yao and China where Bourousis had 3 more points and 4 more rebounds against Yao playing on a team where everyone else are worse than d-league players so Greece’s team’s strategy is stopping Yao.
  
  So again spreading lies. The only truth is that Bourousis was dominated by Ike Diogu in a game his team lost and needed him.
  Reply Cancel
mike
12 years ago
Bourousis? Seriously? How is this even a debate? We all know better.

The big news is Ricky’s back! In purposely limited 18 minutes, he had 8 points, 9 assists, 2 t.o.’s only, and he livened up the crowd with a dazzling between the defender’s legs pass to Stiemsa. He also played good defense with a steal. Dallas’ Dhantay Jones said,” he’s special.” Kiri compared him to the best PGs he’s ever played with D.Williams and Mark Jackson, and Stockton. Others may score better, or are more spectacular, but Rubio has a special quality which is the most important of all, he make his teammates better.

I predicted it. Before this season is over, it will be clear that Rubio is an elite PG capable of capturing an NBA Title, the world’s most prestigious basketball title.

And Gabe, how ’bout those Knicks? I’m wallowing in jelousy with Bynum hitting the bowling circuit. I’m still not sure if they’re elite when playoff time comes, but Melo is really playing better than ever, and Steve Novak is hitting the crap out of those 3s. Whew!
Reply Cancel
Tyson Chandler sucks
12 years ago
Bourousis is better than Tyson Chandler.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Tyson Chandler = World Championship and Olympic Gold Medal.
  Reply Cancel
Zoran
12 years ago
Anyone that says Tyson Chandler is as good or better than Bourousis has NEVER IN THEIR life picked up a basketball.

I don’t think Chandler is even 1/3 as good as Bourousis is.

There is some really crazy shit that is allowed to be posted in this site. Tyson Chandler who has no offense and no skills and can only run the floor, block shots, and rebound is better than the most skilled and best all around big man in the world?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahah

I had a good laugh at this fucking moron queer Gabe.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Bourousis and is scrub and a joke and anybody who knows anything about basketball will agree. Bourousis is the scrub who in Greece’s biggest game got dominated inside by Diogu and the Aminu brothers. Bourousis is the scrub that couldn’t even lead his team out of the Euroleague regular season, meaning he was the center of one of the worst 8 teams of that 2nd tier league, not to mention getting blown out by 30 points by the Celtics on his own home court. Bourousis is the same scrub who hasn’t even been selected for an All-Euroleague team in 4 years while NBA scrubs, back-ups and failures like Krstic, Batiste, Khryapa and Splitter have been selected over that scrub Bourousis.
  
  Last year Tyson Chandler was selected all-NBA third team. Being selected all-NBA third team means a lot more than even being Euroleague MVP (Kirilenko never was All-NBA third team) and Bourousis can’t even be selected for all-Euroleague 2nd team. He is the scrub of all scrubs!
  
  Tyson Chandler was selected NBA DPOY meaning he is the best defensive player in the whole world not to mention the starting center on an NBA champion and Olympic Gold Medal team, and he has a World Championship gold as well!
  
  Yes I grant you Chandler cannot create his own shot but he is the best at defense, rebounding and pick and rolls. Put him with a scorer (Anthony, Nowitzki) and you have a contender.
  
  So maybe Bourousis has a better offensive game than Chander, so what? So probably does Hamed Haddadi. But to even compare that scrub Bourousis, who is not even the top big man in the 2nd tier league of Euroleague, to one of the top big men in the NBA is like comparing Carmelo Anthony to Yi Jianlian.
  Reply Cancel
Coach John
12 years ago
OK, I had to look up Bourousis on YouTube to see if Gabe is lying and trolling again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3JQeVXgEyp8

If this guy is a scrub, then 99 percent of all centers in NBA history were also scrubs. That guy is an absolute freak. Much better than D. Howard any day.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  You decided that from a highlight reel? Any 12th man in any league in the world can create a 10 minutes highlight reel that would make him look great. And remember most of those games in the highlight reel are against Euroleague competition or worse.
  
  That one in the beginning against the Cavs shows Bourosis only 4 points in the game that his team lost by 17. A 37 year old Shaq dominated him scoring 3X as much.
  Reply Cancel
Thomas
12 years ago
Gabe is clearly retarded. I watched that video and Bourousis is by far more skilled than any center in the NBA. Not even close. At this point I think it is clear that the Euro fans are telling the truth about Gabe.

How anyone could watch that and say Bourousis is a scrub is truly beyond me. There isn’t a center in the NBA that could do even half of those moves.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  You have to account for the level of competition he is going up against. Remember this is the scrub who got dominated by the front court of Team Nigeria. He couldn’t even advance his team out of the Euroleague regular season. You really think he could start on an NBA team. He would be a back-up at best in the NBA. He is not athletic enough. He is like a poor man’s Krstic. Krstic is better than him in Euroleague and in the NBA Krstic was pretty much a role player/scrub.
  Reply Cancel
Stavros
12 years ago
lol, it’s creepy how coach john/thomas/etc. are all the same person but refuse to use one account name. at least gabe is consistent.
Reply Cancel
Thomas
12 years ago
Also, that video was showing him against all kinds of NBA centers, not Euro scrubs. Quit lying. He was clearly being guarded by Ilgauskas, not Shaq, so another lie of yours.

He was hitting great post moves, lay ups, and dunks while playing against current and former NBA players like Joakim Noah, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Romain Sato, Antonis Fotsis, Nenad Krstic, Timofey Mozgov, Uros Slokar, Boris Diaw, Tiago Splitter, Mike Batiste, Nikola Pekovic, Jason Collins, David Andersen, Brandon Bass in that video.

He was making Noah look like a junior high player in one of those clips. He rejected the living hell out of Kirilenko in another one of those clips.

Bunches of guys that played in the NBA, and you are calling them Euro scrubs. You are a disgrace with your trolling and lies.

I also find it funny how you have been saying here that he can’t jump, can’t run, and can’t dunk. Yet he out jumped Jeff Green on a lob pass in that video, knocking the lob attempt away, he ran down the court, out running Darko Milicic and Jeff Green, then dunked, he had a bunch of dunks off lob passes, etc.

He can’t run or jump according to you, yet he is out running and out jumping numerous NBA players in those clips.

Yeah, you pretty much lied to everyone here that this guy can’t run, can’t jump, is a stiff, etc. You really got exposed as a liar by that clip. I suggest you stop lying now. I’m a Warriors fan and I would love to have that guy. Marc Gasol isn’t even close to that good. They are saying he’s similar to Divac, but he’s better than Divac. Divac didn’t have those kinds of post moves.

I was seeing some prime Olajuwon level post moves there. This guy is more skilled than Tim Duncan is.

You say this guy can’t jump or dunk, but he was playing a foot above the rim in much of that clip. I don’t know what your problem is, but you got exposed. You are a troll and you are a liar.

Do you actually think people cannot watch that and see what a liar you are? You are a real embarrassment to American basketball fans. You are putting a black mark on all real American basketball enthusiasts with your crap you are doing here. That Bourousis looks FANTASTIC. Definitely like a pre-injury Sabonis.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Hahaha Now I know you’re joking. I get it satire. Even the biggest Bourousis fan would not say that stuff. He is the biggest scrub. Dominated by Nigeria’s front line. You mention highlights from the game against Boston. He lost that game by 30 points. Losing to Nigeria and getting blown out by 30 points on your own home court may be acceptable for Scrubs like Bourousis and Spanoulis but do you think the greats would ever lose those games.
  
  Bourousis could not even advance out of the Euroleague regular season. Even the worst of the worst NBA teams would be able to do that. You mention him as great as Duncan, Gasol, etc…Those players were NBA all-stars, all-NBA team player.
  
  Bourousis in his 11 years in the Euroleague only has one all-Euroleague team honor has never medaled in an Olympic or World Championship.
  
  He is a loser. Lost to Nigeria. Could not advance out of Euroleague regular season. Is not even the top center in Euroleague where scrubs like Krstic and Batiste rule.
  
  Bourousis has always been and will always be a scrub. He will continue to lose at any level he plays at. If he comes to the NBA he will never even see the court. Diogu is licking his lips to face him again so he can look like Shaq.
  
  Bourousis is a joke and a scrub. What ever team he is on sucks! He is an embarrassment to the nation the nation of Greece, the continent of Europe, his family and mankind.
  Reply Cancel
Thomas
12 years ago
Bourousis has much better stats in Euroleague than Krstic does.

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2012&cat=Valuation&agg=PerGame

Krstic is NOT better than Bourousis. Bourousis is rated higher than Aron Baynes, and several NBA teams are trying to sign Baynes.

Gabe is most definitely a troll, a liar, and a disgrace too all of us real American basketball fans.
Reply Cancel
Michael
12 years ago
“Whatever team he is on sucks”.

Then why did Greece win the European championship when he was on it?

Then why did Olympiacos make back to Euroleague Final Fours, making the Euroleague Final once with Bourousis was on the team?

Is there anyone that reads this site that does not yet realize what this Gabe is doing? He is purposely trying to get all basketball fans from around the world to think all American basketball fans think like him. He is trying to make American NBA fans hated all around the world.

I have seen dozens of times where Gabe claimed Childress and Rubio were good Euroleague players, citing the sole proof that they played on teams that made the Euroleague Final. He has said many times here that this alone is proof they were good Euroleague players and that nothing else anyone says could ever dispute that.

Bourousis played in the Euroleague Final, yet Gabe is here saying he’s one of the worst players in Euroleague, one of the biggest scrubs in Europe, and that “every team he has ever played on sucks”, including evidently the team he was on that won the European championship.

So in the case of NBA players (Rubio and Childress) being on a team that makes the Euroelague Final is “proof they are good”. But in the case of a Euroleague player (Bourousis) it is “proof he is a scrub”.
Reply Cancel
Michael
12 years ago
“Whatever team he is on sucks”.

European men’s college age championship – 2002

Greek League championship – 2002

European senior men’s level championship – 2005

Greek Cup championship – 2010, 2011

All those teams Bourousis was on that “sucked” won those championships……..

Not to mention he was on a Euroleague Final Four team in 2009, a Euroleague Finals team in 2010, and a third placed team at the senior men’s European championship in 2009.

So evidently, winning championships, finishing in the top 2-4 of the entire continent, etc. is “being on teams that sucks”.

Yes, winning Greek championships, Greek Cups, winning the European college age championship, winning the European senior men’s championship, and making the final of the Euroleague is clearly a track record of “being a proven loser”, and clearly proves that, “every single team Bourousis was ever on sucked”.

Os Davis, you should be ashamed of yourself that Gabe is allowed to post this SHIT on this forum.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  lol Greek club championships. What was he the 12th man on the Greek team in Eurobasket? He never was selected to an all FIBA team. Let’s look at more modern history.
  
  2012- Eliminated by Nigeria in the Olympic qualifying even
  2012- Eliminated in the Euroleague regular season.
  
  What a bum. He should have some pride for himself and his family and just retire after those embarrassments. He is becoming the laughing stock of an entire nation, or really an entire continent. Or maybe he should invite a .500 Celtics team to his home court again so he can get spanked by 30 points.
  
  At the very least he should play in China. At least there he has a chance of not being embarrassed. Unless he faces Ike Diogu! Jajajajajaj
  Reply Cancel
  - Michael
    12 years ago
    The person responsible for Milano not making the Top 16 was cut by his team without pay. That person was not Bourousis, it was Omar Cook.
    
    Everyone that saw the Greece against Nigeria game knows the refs rigged that game, and the announcers said several times during the game that Bourousis was playing with a severe knee injury, which European media reported that he had knee surgery right after that tournament.
    
    Os Davis, why are you allowing Gabe to spread all these lies here? Can you please kindly explain it to me? Just please give me one reason why you allow this to go on here. Otherwise I am done with this site. Gabe and you can talk to yourselves.
    Reply Cancel
    - Gabe
      12 years ago
      Excuses. Excuses. It was his knee. It was the refs. It was his teammates.
      wah wah wah
      Excuses are for losers.
      The facts are that Bourousis was the starting center for the team that got eliminated by Nigeria in the Olympic qualifying event and the starting center for a team that could not even advance out of the Euroleague regular season and got blown out by 30 to the Celtics at home.
      
      Bourousis is a loser, a scrub and a disgrace. After that resume no team would touch him. He should just retire instead of continuing to embarrass himself.
      Reply Cancel
Michael
12 years ago
Omar Cook got cut by Olimpia Milano after he missed free throws on purpose to spite his coach, and thus cost them advancing to the Top 16 of Euroleague.

Gabe is here claiming Milano failed to make the Top because of Bourousis, not because of Cook, who was the real reason, and got cut from the team as a result of his actions.

There cannot be a more blatant example than this, to prove the level of lies being spread here by Gabe.
Reply Cancel
Michael
12 years ago
http://www.eurobasket.com/Italy/basketball.asp?NewsID=300399

Olimpia Milano: the heads begin to fall – Dec 18, 2012

POSTED BY:
ANTONELLO VARALLO

After the awful elimination from Euroleague, Olimpia Milano has announced that Omar-Sharif Cook (188-PG-82, agency: Beo Basket, college: St.John’s)k and Richard Hendrix (204-C/F-86, college: Alabama) are no more members of the roster. Moreover, Tiziano Frates has been fired as assistant coach. Cook played 10 games during the disastrous campaign in Euroleague, with 7.3 ppg and 5.0 apg, a season high of 15 points scored against Cedevita and some crucial mistakes during last games; his lack of charisma has often been criticized. Hendrix averaged 3.7 ppg and 3.0 rpg: he had been hired to dominate, he has been dominated.

————————————————————————————————————-

Omar Cook and Richard Hendrix were cut by Milano, because the club blamed them for failing to make the Top 16.

THE CLUB DID NOT BLAME ITS BEST PLAYER IOANNIS BOUROUSIS

Yet,m Gabe keeps claiming here that, “everyone knows Milano failed to make the Top 16 because of Bourousis”.

Os Davis, you have to put an end to this. Gabe has destroyed your website.
Reply Cancel
Gabe
12 years ago
I mean you mention players like Duncan, Gasol, Divac, Sabonis, and other great big men. You take any of those players and put them with players from your local Y and they would at the very least still be able to beat Nigeria and advance out of the Euroleague regular season!
Reply Cancel
mike
12 years ago
BTW, Bourousis is a career 7.8ppg and 5.5 rpg in his Euroleague career. How in hell is this a premiere center? Amazing anyone with half a brain would argue the contrary. This is not even a debate.
Reply Cancel
Michael
12 years ago
So Os Davis won’t intervene here? He will keep letting this trolling by Gabe and mike go on? Fine. The site can just be mike and Gabe and no one else.

I am DONE here.
Reply Cancel
Bourousis Was First
12 years ago
Aron Baynes did no make it past the regular season, his team had a worse record, in an easier group than Bourousis was playing in, and he was on this list – even having a lower index rating than Bourousis.

It’s the OPINION OF ONE PERSON.

Where is Jordan Farmar? The guy you GUARANTEED would win Euroleague MVP? Where is he?

Bourousis had the highest PIR in Euroleague, and none of your trolling can change that.

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2012&cat=Valuation&agg=PerGame

Oh yeah, Jordan Farmar, who you said, “will for sure be the Euroleague MVP”, and is “the Michael Jordan of Europe” according to you, was 24th. Bourousis was 1st.

You also guaranteed that, “Rudy Fernandez will completely destroy, and totally dominate and annihilate the entire Euroleague like never before seen”.

He was 19th. Bourousis was 1st.

You also predicted that, “Shelden Williams will instantly be the best center in Euroleague.” He was 21st. Bourousis was 1st.

You also predicted that, “Hilton Armstrong would definitely be voted as the best center in the Euroleague, and will clearly totally dominate the entire Euroleague”. He was cut due to poor play by his team.

Bourousis was 1st.

You also predicted that, “Sonny Weems will dominate the whole Euroleague like no other before him”. He was 13th. Bourousis was 1st.

You claimed that, “Bobby Brown is the single greatest player player in all of Europe today, and totally dominates all stats like no other player.” He was 4th. Bourousis was 1st.

Some of Gabe’s aliases at this and other sites =

KWSN-Men
Arkadios
Grinder
mike
Da Dakota
SamFisher
gabepizza

In life, “Gabe” has always been last, while Bourousis has always been 1st.
Reply Cancel
- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Nope. Wrong. Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Since Bourousis couldn’t advance out of the regular season none of his stats count, as you have said before. So Bourousis is not first, he is “stats don’t count because he is so bad he couldn’t advance out of the regular season!”. And since Baynes did not advance out of the regular season Bobby Brown is really 2nd and Weems is 9.
  Reply Cancel
- Spanoulis Sucks
  12 years ago
  I thought you were done here?
  Reply Cancel