Euroleague Power Rankings: 2012-13 Opening Day Edition

October 11, 2012

All right, it’s that time again! With hours to go before the 2012-13 Euroleague season tips off, BallinEurope breaks out its first power ratings for the big league.

Whereas normally a disclaimer to the effect of “the following ratings are based on current trending only and are not necessarily based on the overall quality of the teams” runs here, this year BiE’s switching things up a bit. To wit: For this edition of Euroleague power rankings, the teams *will* be run based on BallinEurope’s totally subjective viewpoint. (Mainly because BiE couldn’t figure out what to do with Barcelona…)

Get your arguments ready and read on for this season’s first power rankings, with Official BallinEurope Fearless Predictions™ for the upcoming season peppered throughout. Enjoy the games!

The favorites
1. Olympiacos Piraeus. The usual reserved spot for the defending champion comes with some justification this year, as Vassilis Spanoulis & Co. show no signs of letting up on their 2011-12 season-ending 22-4 run. In the off-/preseason, Olympiacos’ foursome of Spanoulis, local hero Georgios Printezis, Kostas Papanikolaou and Evengelos Mantazaris suited up for a disappointed Team Greece – all but Mantazaris acquitted themselves nicely, with 50-of-89 (56.2%) overall shooting and Spanoulis dishing out just under six assists per game in three Olympic qualifiers.

No matter: Olympiacos – nearly the same roster as that which ended 2011-12, but with significant additions Dimitrios Mavroeidis and Stratos Perperoglou stormed through the Domreiter Cup as though the Greek League title game were last week. How long can the Reds ride this wave?

2. CSKA Moscow. Check out this frontcourt: Nenad Krstic, Viktor Khryapa, Sasha Kaun, Zoran Erceg, Andrey Vorontsevich. The best in Europe? And with the addition of Sonny Weems, the Red Army will once again be able to fire from anywhere on the court. Then there’s the coaching move of the offseason in welcoming back Ettore Messina … what’s that? CSKA lost three guys to the NBA for 2012-13? Who can tell?

3. Fenerbahçe Ülker. Bo. The Official BallinEurope Fearless Prediction™: McCalebb takes the 2012-13 Euroleague MVP award.

Okay, there should probably be a bit more text here. McCalebb leads a number of offseason acquisitions – including Euroleague veterans in David Andersen, Mike Batiste and Romain Sato – that represented an overall upgrade at essentially every position. After the win over the Boston Celtics, Fenerbahçe fans have got to be stoked: The passing game was crisp, the velocity in the open court shows greater speed and general basketball IQ, and Bo was Bo. Fenerbahçe management might be satisfied with retaking the TBL crown, but the sky’s the limit for these guys.

4. FC Barcelona. What to make of two losses to middling Spanish teams followed by a nicely played win over the Dirk-less Dallas Mavericks? The Blaugrana’s 0-2 start is the first by the club in the Navarro Era and perhaps for the first time since Juan Carlos established himself, Barcelona looks trapped by their own formula. Is this the season that the years of Euroleague-first team-building are getting to them? Maybe it’s time to shed the dogma of so much inside game…?

5. Real Madrid. Now, Los Blancos look like a flashback to Barça, circa 2008. Two losses ‘Stateside belie Real’s excellent offensive showings despite jetlag and size mismatches against the Memphis Grizzlies and Toronto Raptors. Here’s an easy Official BallinEurope Fearless Prediction™: Real Madrid will be the highest-scoring team in the ‘League this season … on whether that would be enough in a late-season or tournament meeting against the monsters of Moscow, BiE won’t hedge, but this team is looking to go far.

Upset-minded semifinalists
6. Anadolu Efes Pilsen. How much does BiE love the reunification of Sasha Vujacic and Jordan Farmar? A lot. And with signings Semih Erden and Jamon Lucas, the biggest question surrounding this team regard Oktay Mahmuti, the former Galatasaray coach now in charge at Anadolu. Of course, with this much talent near career peak, Mahmuti might just sit back and let the former Lakers run the show.

7. Caja Laboral Baskonia. BiE’s dark-horse pick. You gotta love the international roster the Baskonians have cobbled together: Andres Nocioni of Italy, Maciej Lampe (Poland), Tibor Pleiss of Germany, Thomas Huertel of France, Nemanja Bjelica of Serbia and Brad Oleson of the USA amid four Spaniards led by Fernando San Emeterio, he of the killer 2011-12 season.

You gotta love the addition of Taylor Rochestie, whose magic led the way in a fantastic 10-0 run by Team Montenegro in Eurobasket 2013 qualifers.

And you gotta love the way they’ll be tested tonight in their EL opener at the home of defending champs Olympiacos. Unless you’re a Baskonia fan, BiE supposes…

The old guard/wait and see
8. Panathinaikos.
9. Maccabi Tel Aviv. Panathinaikos management’s reaction to Olympiacos’ success was extreme this offseason, with a total roster makeover and a coaching switch from legend to unknown quantity (Argiris Pedoulakis, most recently of Peristeri and with no experience in Euroleague play).

Such a massive reshuffling of the deck is nothing new for Maccabi, but judging from a pair of preseason showings, this team has yet to gel – and the early exit of Pops Mensah-Bonsu has got to be a bummer.

BiE would suspect that David Blatt will find some way to make things work in Tel Aviv, and by sheer names alone, both these teams will hardly wash out … it’s hard to imagine a very long run for either in 2013, however.

The (relative) surprises
10. Zalgiris Kaunas. What happened to Mad Vlad? Did Žalgiris’ own Scrooge have a “Christmas Carol”-like awakening this summer? Yes, the flamboyant owner threw money at his problems, but with an eye to his club’s glorious past, he did so cleverly. Back to the homeland are the Lavrinovic Brothers and Rimantas Kaukenas, the latter seemingly geared up for one or two last glorious runs. Romanov has spoken highly with regard to what he’s seen with Joan Plaza’s interaction with the players early on – now if only he can stay a little patient. Remember the Ghost of Basketball Future, Vladimir…

11. Alba Berlin. Wait, hear me out on this one. Sure, aside from Nihad Đedović and possibly Deon Thompson, Alba’s offseason signings don’t seem like much, but fans have got to enjoy the homegrown talent serving as core bunch for the team: Guys like Lucca Staiger, Heiko Schaffartzik and Sven Schultze. Familiarity and teamwork will get these guys some wins; a decidedly weak Group B will get them a few more.

Fighting for fourth place in group
12. Emporio Armani Milano. Group of Death? Forget the top-heavy D, all question marks beyond the Red Army and Blaugrana. Group A seems tempting to ascribe the label to, with its traditional powerhouses (PAO, Real Madrid, Fenerbahçe) and steadily-developing sides (BC Khimki, Cantù), but nah. It says here that Group C is bringing the five of the top 12 into the competition – and someone’s gonna have a legitimate gripe when, say, Unicaja and/or Beşiktaş advance at 4-6.

13. BC Khimki Moscow region. BC Khimki was another relatively quiet team in the offseason, with coach Rimas Kurtinitis apparently happy with a hand that includes Sergey Monya, Vitaly Fridzon, Zoran Planinic and Matt Nielsen – and why wouldn’t he be? Official BallinEurope Fearless Prediction™: Khimki overcomes Cantù for the no. 4 spot in a tough Group A.

14. Partizan Belgrade. Youth again leads the way for the Black-and-Whites and some swell young talent there is indeed. Bogdan Bogdanovic developed nicely last season and picking up Drew Gordon, Dejan Musli and Leo Westermann just before potential breakout seasons was prescient indeed. As for the return of Dusko Vujosevic after a couple years of downtime, what needs to be said? The informal Fearless Prediction™ here reckons that Partizan will just get better as the season goes on; these guys could be very dangerous in the quarterfinal knockout round.

15. Mapooro Cantù.
16. Besiktas JK. Two more who-can-tell teams. Here’s the additions in an exhausting Cantù offseason as encapsulated by the Euroleague official website: “a new-look backcourt featuring experienced Pietro Aradori, talented newcomer Jerry Smith and combo-guard Jonathan Tabu … power forwards Jeff Brooks and Alex Tyus. Active big man Marco Cusin adds much needed size and muscle, while promising swingman Andrea Casella and on-loan guard Jakub Kudlacek add more depth to the perimeter.

As for the FIBA Eurochallenge/TBL champions: “From top to bottom, virtually everything about the Besiktas JK Istanbul [for 2012-13] is new. Starting with head coach Erman Kunter and going through the majority of the roster, there has been turnover. … There are those that have played for Kunter before, like Randal Falker and Patrick Christopher; those that have played for Besiktas in the past, like Muratcan Guler and Cevher Ozer; and those that are veterans of both Turkish basketball and the Euroleague, like Curtis Jerrells, Gasper Vidmar and Tutku Acik. Experienced forwards Damir Markota and Vladimir Dasic complete a list of 10 newcomers meant to mount a Euroleague challenge…”

Both teams look decent on paper, but as they say, the games are played on hardwood. Wait and see…

17. Montepaschi Siena. After years of publicly fretting about finances, Siena GM/mastermind Ferdinando Minucci may have a legitimate gripe in 2012-13. Unfortunately, much of the blame will ultimately be placed on himself. The Bizarro Fenerbahçe, the perpetual Italian champs *downgraded* at nearly every position, forgetting recent tradition in declining to re-sign David Andersen, Bootsy Thornton and Nikos Zisis plus coach Simone Pianigiani along with losing Shaun Stonerook to retirement. And now the ball is in Bobby Brown’s hands; your own Euroleague power rankings will reflect your feelings about the man.

18. Unicaja Malaga. Some interesting signings were undertaken by Malaga this offseason, but isn’t something of a leap of faith required on the likes of Earl Calloway and James Gist? Wasn’t there a reason why normally veteran-favoring Barcelona let Kosta Perovic and Fran Vazquez go? Again, such serious turnover may require the “wait and see” attitude, but a 1-1 record back home including a one-point win over mediocre FIATC Joventut is food for thought.

19. Lietuvos Rytas. Like rivals Žalgiris, L. Rytas accentuates the Lithuanian talent, most markedly with the addition of Florida State University-educated Deividas Dulkys. But whereas the Greens have Lavrinovices and Kaukenases, L. Rytas has Seibutises and Buterleviciuses. Some nice foreign additions were made as well in Janis Blums and Nemanja Nedovic, but in general this team feels like it’s still a year away from the upper echelon of the EL.

Not this year
20. Brose Baskets Bamberg
21. Asseco Prokom
22. Elan Chalon-Sur-Saone
23. Union Olimpija
24. Cedevita Zagreb. Of these teams, perhaps only Bamberg can head into the season with optimism: At 21 years old or younger, Philipp Neumann, Maik Zirbes and Daniel Schmidt have a reasonable chance to prove themselves viable Euroleague players. Excitement (if not necessarily team-first mentality) has arrived with Latavious Williams, while Bostjan Nachbar and A.J. Oglivy could form a sweet duo – if the latter can stay off the injury list. Unfortunately for them, they’re stuck in the talented Group D.

As for the others, Asseco Prokom and Elan Chalon are way too thin of roster to compete late. Union Olimpija saw a bit of a revolving-door roster this offseason, acquiring players from mid-level clubs in Greece, Poland, Slovenia, France, Italy and Belgium, making them this year’s ultimate no-name team in the big league (and maybe even in the Adriatic ABA).

Finally, there’s Cedevita Zagreb. On the “Euroleague Bonanza” edition of the “Taking the Charge” podcast, co-host David Hein pushed hard for an answer to the question of “Which team will fare worst in the first round?” After a look at the Cedevita roster – and a glimpse at the dread Group C – surely this side is mostly likely to earn a goose egg in round one, furthering the mystery of current Croatian basketball: How can the national teams and overall player development be so good and the professional clubs so trapped in a universal graveyard spiral? Ah, if only those dreams of Dario Saric had come true…

Oct 11, 2012ballineurope

This post was published on October 11, 2012

Comments: 60

Gabe
12 years ago
Who was the third player CSKA lost to the NBA. I know of Kirilenko and Shved but who is the 3rd?

And Andres Nocioni of Italy? Last I looked Nocioni was born and bred in Argentina, not to mention playing for Argentina’s national team.
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Locke
12 years ago
Efes and Caja Laboral too high. Panathinaikos too low. Partizan way too high.

Gabe says:
October 11, 2012 at 8.01pm

And Andres Nocioni of Italy? Last I looked Nocioni was born and bred in Argentina, not to mention playing for Argentina’s national team.

Nocioni is an Italian citizen you moron. Like 80% of Argentina’s national team for the last 15 years, his parents are Italian.

And you are a moron, for not even knowing that Nocioni is an Italian name………..
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  O’Neal is an Irish name. Does that mean Shaq is Irish?
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Phileus
12 years ago
HURR DURR I DON’T UNDERSTAND IMMIGRATION HURR!?!?! Nocioni was born and raised in Argentina. He does have Italian nationality but clearly the fact that he chooses to play for the Argentina NT shows which country he feels more closely identified with.
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BED
12 years ago
Nocioni is Italian, as both of his parents are Italian. His nationality is Argentina / Italy. His descent is ITALIAN.

My god there are some REALLY fucking STUPID people that post here.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Again Nocioni was born and bred in Argentina. Has never lived in Italy in his life and plays for the Argentinian national team, not the Italian team. If you want to go him Italian-Argentinian, fine. The point is the author of this article wrote “Nocioni of Italy” not even mentioning his Argentinian roots.
  
  My father is Italian. My descent is ITALIAN. If I wanted to I could get Italian citizenship and my nationality would be USA/Italy. But if somebody says “Gabe of Italy” not mentioning how I was born in bred in the United States and never lived in Italy in my life, they would be wrong, especially if I also played for Team USA.
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  - Phileus
    12 years ago
    It’s probably true that people in countries like US, Canada, Brazil, and other large multi-ethnic countries have far different conceptions of nationality than other more insular societies. At least in Canada and the States we’ve embraced the concept of the “hyphenated American” (Asian-American, Italian-American etc.), but the first part of that hyphenated identity becomes less and less important as the generations go on.
    
    GOD BLESS AMURICA!
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Greg
12 years ago
Nocioni is an Italian with Argentine nationality. Gabe is some kind of moron of epic proportions. Nocioni is one of the most common Italian names you fool.

Nocioni speaks Italian, reads Italian, has Italian citizenship, etc. Is even registered by all of his European clubs and leagues as Italian.

Gabe, do us all a favor and stay the hell off of this website.

Oh and speaking of Italian – I read about 500 posts here from you where you claimed “Daganduro > Spanouis”. Since Daganduro had never played in any decent European league apparently you thought you could get away with such bull shit claims without how he played in a decent European league being posted.

Now, fortunately, he plays in the Italian League – currently rated as the 6th best league in Europe……………

Ade Dagaunduro in Europe’s 6th best league —->

http://web.legabasket.it/player/?id=DAG-ADE-86&year=2012&team=1232

1.3 PPG and a player index rating of 1.0 per game…………..

So the guy with 1.3 points per game and an index rating of 1.0 in Europe’s 6th best league is “better than Spanoulis” according to Gabe……..

Gabe might just be the single biggest troll in history.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  I’m sure Nocioni also speaks Spanish reads Spanish, has Argentinian citizenship, etc…The difference is that Nocioni has never lived in Italy but he was born in Argentina and lived there until he was 20. And lastly Nocioni plays for the Argentinian national team, in fact he was on the Argentinian team that beat Italy in the gold medal game of the 2004 Olympics. The only Olympic basketball medal not to be won by the US in the past 25 years!
  
  As for Daganduro he sure shitted on Spanoulis when the game really mattered. An elimination game playing for your country. It was Daganduro hitting the big shots to help his team advance while Spanoulis was wetting his pants and wishing he had Papaloukas still on the team because they have sucked ever since he retired, not even making a top 10 in a global competition! LMFAO
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Jack
12 years ago
1. Nocioni is clearly Italian. So saying he is not Italian, simply because he is from Argentina, where probably half the country is ITALIAN, if not more, maybe even hell 80% maybe, well that is truly the level of brain power of this Gabe.

Prigioni, Delfino, Scola, Ginobili, Oberto, Nocioni – ALL OF THEM ARE ITALIAN!

PERIOD!

2. Dagunduro is a scrub in a mid level team in a mid level European league.

3. Papaloukas? I guess that’s why Spanoulis won a medal and was all Eurobasket without Papaloukas.

Yeah, let’s see with Papaloukas 4th place in 2007, 5th place in 2008, without Papaloukas 3rd place in 2009.

You know it has become CLEAR that this guy that calls himself Gabe is none other than the incredibly notorious KWSN-Men of interbasket forums.

Papaloukas was never half as good as Spanoulis is. Spanoulis was the top scorer and 1st option of every single Greek national team, with or without Papaloukas.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  5th place in 2008, without Papaloukas?
  WRONG!
  
  http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/olym/men/scheResu/p/eventid/4004/gamename/2/groupname/B/langlc/en/lid_23307_opennodeids//roundid/6450/fe_scheStat_boxScor.html
  
  Funny how you say Papaloukas didn’t play in 2008 and here he is in the official box score.
  
  And I said Greece never even made a top 10 in a global competition. Eurobasket is a regional competition. Hell MYR of Macedonia was 4th place in 2011 Eurobasket yet we saw how good they were playing against the rest of the world…losing to Angola and Dominican Republic and not even making it out of the quarter-finals of the Olympic qualifying tournament!.
  
  And I’m done with the Italian argument. I never said Nocioni was not Italian I just said he is more Argentinian than Italian so to call him Italian without mentioning his Argentinian heritage, like they did for this article, is wrong. I mean you might as well call Durant and Lebron African. In fact every person living in the Americas or Australia, unless they are native American, indigenous, or aboriginal are European, African, or Asian.
  
  And Dagunduro my be “a scrub in a mid level team in a mid level European league” but he sure shatted on Spanoulis when the game really mattered!
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Vic
12 years ago
I have never poster here, but I want the record to show that I support Gabe in the now infamous “Italian argument”. The condescension on the part of some posters was completely and utterly unwarranted.
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BED
12 years ago
Gabe says:
October 15, 2012 at 3.05pm

5th place in 2008, without Papaloukas?
WRONG!

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/08/olym/men/scheResu/p/eventid/4004/gamename/2/groupname/B/langlc/en/lid_23307_opennodeids//roundid/6450/fe_scheStat_boxScor.html

Funny how you say Papaloukas didn’t play in 2008 and here he is in the official box score.

What the hell?

Papaloukas playing 2007 – 4th place

Papaloukas playing 2008 – 5th place

Papaloukas not playing 2009 – 3rd place.

This Gabe has some kind of mental disorder. He just claimed here that Greece “got worse as soon as Papaloukas left”. Another poster told him he was wrong, as they actually did better in the year after he left, and he then proceeds to go off on some kind of tirade which was not even related.

Yeah, this Gabe is clearly not playing with a full deck. This person is not reasonable, nor rational and you can’t have a discussion with him.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Again Eurobasket is not the same as global competitions like the Olympics and World Championship. With Papaloukas Greece was a contender in these global competitions, going 5th place in 2004 , 2nd place in 2006 and then 5th place again in 2008. When Papaloukas left Greece was 11th in 2010 and couldn’t even qualify in 2012.
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  - Niko
    12 years ago
    Greece was in 4th place in 2007 Eurobasket when Papaloukas played. Then got bronze in the next Eurobasket without him. You are simply wrong on this. You made a bullshit claim and got called out on it. Just admit it and stop trolling.
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    - Gabe
      12 years ago
      So Greece got one place better in Eurobasket without Papaloukas. The regional competition of Eurobasket where FYC of Macedonia got 4th place recently. While in the real competitions on the world stage, with Papaloukas Greece placed 5th, 2nd, and then 5th again. Once Papaloukas left and Spanoulis took over as the main PG Greece dropped all the way to 11th place and then not even qualifying for the Olympics meaning not even being a top 12 team. End of discussion.
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      - Niko
        12 years ago
        This Gabe is continuing to prove he is a troll. It was proven that Greece did BETTER after Papaloukas left their team, and yet you keep PRETENDING that is not true.
        
        Never have I seen such an outlandish troll as you on any site before.
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      - Niko
        12 years ago
        “Once Papaloukas left when Spanoulis took over as the main point guard” – Spanoulis was Greeces’ main point guard starting in 2006. I am done with you. There is no end to your lies.
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BED
12 years ago
Vic says:
October 16, 2012 at 12.19am

I have never poster here, but I want the record to show that I support Gabe in the now infamous “Italian argument”. The condescension on the part of some posters was completely and utterly unwarranted.

The problem is that people tried to pretend that he isn’t Italian. He is Italian. Just because he has Argentine nationality and plays for Argentina’s national team does not mean he is not Italian. He is in fact Italian citizen and he is an Italian heritage, having Italian name and parents.

So, basically some people wanted to pretend that he is not Italian simply because he is from Argentina. Which is a bizarre claim to make, seeing how Argentines are basically Italians and Germans.

It would be like claiming that Sylvester Stallone isn’t Italian simply because he is an American. It’s completely illogical and totally stupid and wrong.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  No one ever claimed Nocioni was not Italian.
  Reply Cancel
- Vic
  12 years ago
  Gabe is right. Using your Stalone analogy, what if someone said ” Sylvester Stallone, from Italy”? Would that description be very accurate? If so, how do we differentiate a person who was born, raised, and still lives in Italy, from a person who was born, raised, and still lives in America, but whoose parents are from Italy? That’s the point Gabe was making. Let’s think before we call people stupid.
  
  Anyway, this blog is pretty cool. I’ll be ch ecking it out over the season. Maybe Real Madrid will eventually become my team, since my NJ Nets moved away from me =(.
  Reply Cancel
Niko
12 years ago
A Greek is a Greek wherever he is born in the world. Same with an Italian. Nocioni is an Italian, just like Galis was a Greek. End of discussion.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Not true. How about a 4th generation Italian American who doesn’t even speak Italian and has never been to Italy? Is he Italian? Yes I guess, but he is more American than Italian. How about someone who was born in America to an Italian father and a mother of some other ethnicity? Is he still Italian? And let’s say he has children with someone who is not Italian either. So the child in 1/4 Italian, doesn’t speak Italian and has never been to Italy, is he still Italian?
  
  You see there are degrees of nationality/ethnicity. Nocioni is Italian but is he as Italian as Gallinari or Bargnani? No. Again Nocioni was born and bred in Argentina and plays for the Argentinian national team. So can you call him Italian? Yes. Could you call describe him only as Italian, leaving out his Argentinian background? Well I guess you can but I feel it is misleading.
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Niko
12 years ago
Yes, it is true under Greek law. It’s also true under American law. That’s why John McCain would for US President without even being born in the USA.

You seem to be an incredibly uneducated person.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  McCain was born in the Panama Canal zone which at that time was under US control.
  Reply Cancel
  - BED
    12 years ago
    The whole world is under US/UK/Israel control. What the hell is your point?
    
    McCain was not born in the USA, so Niko’s point stands.
    Reply Cancel
    - Gabe
      12 years ago
      At that time the Panama Zone was actually a US territory. McCain’s family was the US military who were in a US territory. Nocioni’s family moved to Argentina to live.
      Reply Cancel
Russ
12 years ago
I’ve been checking BiE for quite some time, never wrote a comment here, but I have to admit it’s a fun place. Yeah that Gabe is quite unique, trolling a lot, but sometimes also have some clue. Regarding that “italian-argentinian” argument, I would say Nocioni is “italian-argentinian”, but not from Italy, from Argentina. Since “Italy” or “Argentina” means a territory and “italian” or “argentinian” means ethnicity.
And you know, regarding all that “Spanoulis” thing that is going on here for ages, I think our greek buddies just overrate him. And in fact this is quite understandable, since he is their best player, but being impartial I have to say he is not that good after all. He is very selfish, shoot-first-no-matter-what and pass-last player, not a consistent 3-point shooter, undersized an so on. He also completely sucked in the NBA, even though that is not actually a true argument, because sometimes even great european players (mostly guard) like Navarro, Macijauskas or Jasikevicius don’t really suit to an nba style or are simply ignored by american coaches like Don Nelson or Byron Scott.
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BED
12 years ago
Spanoulis is 6-4, not undersized for a point guard. He’s also a great 3 point shooter, easily one of the best in all of Europe.

He is also one of the best passers in Europe and regularly leads his teams in assists, always in top 5-10 in Euroleague in assists, and led Greece’s league in assists 3 times already.

I am not Greek, and not a Spanoulis fan, and I am impartial. You just said three things about Spanoulis that are totally untrue. That he is “undersized” – but 6-4 is big for a point guard.

That he is “selfish” – but the best creator and assist guy of a team, and a league is not “selfish” and is not “always looking to shoot first”.

That he is “not a consistent 3 point shooter” – every time in FIBA tournaments he is one of the best 3 point shooters in the whole tournament, he is 2/4 in Euroleague so far and was at 39% last year in Euroleague.

The guy is easily in the top 5 best shooters in Europe. Are you serious here? Go look at one of his mix tapes, he is an INSANELY good shooter, with maybe only Navarro being better.

I’m not even of a fan of Spanoulis and I can say what you said is just laughable. You could have said something like, “Spanoulis is turnover prone, and he wants to be the man on his team” – something like that.

What you came up with was just ridiculous. I am very sure you have never once seen Spanoulis play or that you definitely have him confused with a different player.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Come on BED.
  Everybody knows Euroleague stats have an * next to it. Although it is fun to watch it is still the league were Kirilenko was the MVP and Krstic was voted the best center, it’s not like Spanoulis is playing against the best competition in the world.
  
  And how does he do against the best competition in the world? Well nn the NBA he was a total failure. And in FIBA?
  
  Yes in 2006 he won a silver medal (in a competition in which Papaloukás was selected for the all-tournament team not him) But then in 2010 when Papaloukas left the Greek team they dropped all the way to 11th place! I mean that is pretty pathetic, worse then teams like Australia and Slovenia. And then in 2012 after Diamantidis left the team too and it Spanoulis was the undoubtly the best player they were eliminated by NIgeria.
  
  I don’t think you realize how pathetic that was. No player who could be considered one of the top 100 players in the world would lose an elimination game to a Nigerian team that lost by 83 points to the USA. And it’s not like Spanoulis was playing on Team Tunisia or FYR of Macedonia, he was one a Greek team that is one of the top 5 teams in the world. And he could not lead his team to a must win victory over Nigeria??!!! You could see why the rest of the world correctly understands that he is not good at all.
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  - Gabe
    12 years ago
    Hahaha Spanoulis got raped by Jordan Farmer!!!!
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  - Erik K
    12 years ago
    Spanoulis was the leading scorer of that Greek team. He was the first option on offense on that Greek team. He also led that Greek team to victory over Team USA by outscoring Chris Paul 22 to 3 during the game, which he also led Greece in scoring.
    
    Not to mention that he made every single key play and big shot down the stretch of that game and basically beat the USA in the last half of the 4th quarter all by himself….including the game winning baskets at the end of the game.
    
    And here you are making it sound like the only reason Greece got a silver medal at the World Championship in 2006 was because of Papaloukas.
    
    Everyone that says you are a nutso here is right. I’ve never seen anyone with such an irrational hatred of a particular player before. In this case your crazy hatred of Spanoulis. You are more than just a normal hater, you are truly some kind of wacko.
    
    You say the dumbest things here and yet you seem to think that you are somehow looking like the smart one. You clearly have some serious mental issues.
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    - Gabe
      12 years ago
      You keep mention that one game six years ago instead of more recent games this year like Greece-Nigeria or Olympiacos-Efes where Spanoulis couldn’t lead his team past on African team or where he got thoroughly outplayed by an NBA back.
      
      But if you want to keep discussing one game fine. You keep comparing Paul’s stats to Spanoulis’ stats like it has any meaning. The game was right after Paul’s rookie year. It would be another 2 years until he became an all-star pg in the NBA. In fact if you’re going to compare Spanoulis to a US point guard that game compare he to Hinrich. He played just as much as Paul, shot and scored more and was in a crunch time. That’s how good Paul was in 2006 that Coach K trusted Hinrich over him. Since that time Paul was matured into one of the best point guards in the league being the main PG on two US teams that have gone undefeated and won gold in two global tournaments, something Spanoulis has never been able to do.
      
      And in that game Papaloukas had 12 assists. More than the rest of the Greek team combined. It has Papaloukas with the ball in his hands that picked apart Team USA. For example in the last Olympics Prigioni (now a Knick) led the whole tournament with 6.5 apg. So 12 assists in a FIBA game is incredible. There is a reason why Greece has sucked so much since Papaloukas retired. Without the ball in an amazing playmaker’s hand like Papaloukas, players like Spanoulis and Schortsanitis are average at best,
      Reply Cancel
      - Paul
        12 years ago
        I have actually seen that game, unlike you. Spanoulis had the ball in his hands the entire 4th quarter of that game, not Papaloukas.
        
        Also, you claim that these Greek fans can’t mention “that one game”, yet you keep bringing up that ONE GAME against Nigeria.
        
        You are an absolute embarrassment to all American basketball fans everywhere. You are a true low life.
        Reply Cancel
      - Paul
        12 years ago
        Also that game is readily available for viewing online on YouTube. If you keep up with this lie about how Papaloukas had the ball in hands and Spanoulis did nothing, then the game will be posted here and you will be proven and outed once more for the liar you are.
        
        I suggest you shut up now.
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Russ
12 years ago
BED are sure you are not a greek and not a fan of Spanoulis, cause it looks pretty obvious for me you must be both :))) Have you seen this “Ranks #3 in Turnovers” or this “Ranks #1 in Turnovers in 2011-12 both regular and top16” ?? Oh well … and I still stand for my words, that he is one of most selfish players (at least outside the NBA) I’ve ever seen.
And Gabe, as for Kirilenko being EL MVP I’m pretty sure he would’ve been capable of becoming NBA MVP too if only his team would pick him as a go to guy. My point is, that in the NBA there are just too much commercialization when not necessarily the best players become (or are chosen) to be go to guys. An Kirilenko does a lot of things on the court exeptionally well. As for Krstic, he had a good stats last year, but overall he’s a scrub. The same when his buddy Teodosic became MVP couple years ago (?) that was an awful pick.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  Kirilenko capable of becoming NBA MVP too, if only his team would pick him as a go to guy??!!! Where does that come from? I mean can’t you make the argument about any player in the NBA can’t you? If Brain Scalabrine was made a go to guy then he could of been NBA MVP??!! I mean it’s not that any player from Utah was picked for MVP. A comment like that is just silly. He only made all-star game in 2002. Obviously his team didn’t believe that picking him as a go to guy would have led the team to victory.
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- Erik K
  12 years ago
  Spanoulis is turnover prone for sure. But he is definitely not bad at shooting. Spanoulis is one of the best shooters I have ever seen. So that was trolling when it was claimed he can’t shoot.
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Gabe
12 years ago
http://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame?gamecode=19#!boxscore

Here is the box score of how the NBA back-up point guard, Jordan Farmer totally dominated Spanoulis and how his team where he and two other NBA back-ups, Vujacic and Erden, are the best players, totally dominated the defending Euroleague champs, raping them by 26 points.

I mean even I, who know Euroleague is much weaker than the NBA, expected the Euroleague final 4 MVP and the Euroleague champions to put up more of a fight against a team whose best players are NBA back-ups at best. What a joke!!!
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Russ
12 years ago
Come on, Gabe, you know what I’m saying, even though you don’t wanna admit it. There’s no doubt Kirilenko’s all around skill are way better that let’s say Carmelo’s and I’m pretty sure if only NY would’ve chosen Kiri instead of Melo, his overall stats would’ve been much better that Melo’s. I’m not even talking about a jokes like Amare, Love, Griffin or Bosh. What I’m trying to say Kirilenko is way better all around player that all of them, but only because he’s russian and he’s not that selfish he never had a chance of becoming a constant all-star and maybe even a MVP candidate.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  First off none of those players you mentioned have been MVPs or even MVP candidates.
  
  Second off really? I mean Kirilenko is a great defendir and good all around playersbut you really think he can do offensively what Carmelo, Love. Griffin or even Bosh can do? You think it is because he is Russian that he is not allowed to be a constant all-star? So you think the NBA is specifically biased against Russians for some reason? lol It’s not biased against all foreigners because players like Gasol, Nowitzki, Parker, Ginobli, Horford, etc…have become constant all-stars. So maybe you believe the NBA is still stuck in a Cold War mentality to be biased against only Russians? lol And then why was Yao from red China allowed to be a constant all-star? lol
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mike
12 years ago
Wow, entertaining stuff from our resident flat earth trolls, BED(new name), and Niko. . Italian -Argentinian huh?! Ridiculous stuff but funny. With your incredibly insane arguments, 90% of NBA players would be considered African players, not American. Whew, you are something! This site is great. Nowhere else can can we read such drivel.

And no, Kirelenko is not close to the player Melo is even if Kiri is probably a better all around player,
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Phileus
12 years ago
Lol, although I think Spanoulis is a better player than Gabe likes to admit, I have to say it;s pretty funny to see a team led by NBA outcasts and backups dominate the former Euroleague champion and its MVP. In a game against the best, Farmer managed to tie his NBA career-high in assists and beat his NBA career-high in points.
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- Paul
  12 years ago
  I hate to break it to you genius, but Olympiakos didn’t try in that game. It is a totally meaningless game to them. However, their biggest game of the whole season possible is the game right after that one.
  
  So they were doing whatever they could to take it easy and just coast through the game. It never ceases to amaze me how incredibly stupid the people that post here are.
  
  The next time Olympiakos plays Efes I can guarantee there will never be a single post from any of the NBA only fans here about that game.
  
  I have never seen any European basketball fan troll on an NBA forum over single meaningless games before. But I see it on a literally daily basis from NBA only fans trolling on this European basketball themed forum.
  
  You guys need to get a life. You have an illness.
  Reply Cancel
- Paul
  12 years ago
  I like how I read all the time from NBA only fans how guys like Olympiakos players Aciew Law and Joey Dorsey “dominate the Euroleague” because they were “NBA rotation players” and because they are “Americans”. But now when they lose a game, suddenly it’s “against the Euroleague’s best”.
  
  Well which is it? How can it be win Olympiacos wins it is because of their “American NBA rotation players”, but when they lose it is “Efes dominating those Euroleague scrubs”.
  
  For what you say to be true, it would actually be “Efes’ NBA players dominating Olympiacos’ NBA players”.
  
  So funny, how the only credit goes to an NBA player for a win, and the only credit for a loss goes to a Euroleague player.
  
  It’s also funny how you mention “career highs” for Jordan Farmar, since Euroleague fans have been saying here for years how numerous Euroleague players go to the NBA and almost instantly shatter all of their career high records.
  
  Whenever that is mentioned, the NBA only fans claim that “stats cannot be compared across two different leagues”. I’ve seen you make that claim every single time it gets brought up how much bigger stats are for players in the NBA than they were in the Euroleague.
  
  Odd then that you immediately brought up “career highs”. I guess you are just a natural born hypocrite.
  Reply Cancel
  - Gabe
    12 years ago
    hahaha Yes a regular season Euroleague game was “meaningless”. And the reason Olympiacos is because they are Euroleague defending champions, not because of Law and Dorsey.
    Reply Cancel
mike
12 years ago
Phileus, pretty soon these flat earthers will start praising Farmar and distorting reality. They will say he was actually a great NBA player or something to that effect. Or maybe, he was always great,. but his NBA coaches never recognized his abilities. Something like that. hehe

.
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- Paul
  12 years ago
  Or maybe they will state the truth about him. Unlike you, that lies about everything you ever say here, because you are a pathological liar.
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Gabe Lies
12 years ago
First of all, Jordan Farmar was not a “scrub in the NBA. That’s another total lie fabricated by the great liars Gabe and mike. A “scrub” is not a 6th man in the NBA. A “scrub” is not in the rotation of 2 NBA title teams. A “scrub” does not average double figured twice in the NBA, including the last 2 seasons.

That is not a “scrub”.

Jordan Farmar is a very good player.

Secondly, Jordan Farmar is not the best player in the Euroleague.

Of course even after that is proven, you lying scumbags will still be spreading your deranged lies all over this forum. Because you are sick people.

It REALLY takes a SICK person to bash Jordan Farmar for being a “scrub”, when he was actually a good player, then to at the same time exaggerate how good he is and hype him up (“dominates Euroleague” and other endless such bullshit) all for the simple reason of having some kind of strange and bizarre hatred of the Euroleague and all of is players.

All just because you are a bunch of ignorant xenophobic racist jerks that hate white people and hate Europeans. You guys are the absolute epitome of redneck trash and all you are doing is making all American basketball fans look like a total joke by the total poisonous venom and filth that you post here.
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- Gabe
  12 years ago
  First of all…LIE.
  Farmar did not average double figures in the NBA. The only time he averaged double figures was last year in playing only 39 games when he averaged 10.4 ppg for the 22-44 Nets. The year before that he averaged less then double figures, 9.6 ppg for the 24-58 Nets.
  Farmer has averaged 19.5 mpg and 7.7 ppg in his NBA career. When he was on the Lakers’ tittle team he averaged 13 mpg and 4.6 ppg in their playoff runs.
  
  So fine maybe he was not a “scrub” in the NBA but he was certainly not “a very good player” either. And presently he is leading Euroleague in points and index rating. Unbelievable.
  Reply Cancel
  - Gabe
    12 years ago
    Also I don’t think, in the history of internet put downs somebody has ever been called redneck trash who hates white people. That is a definition of an oxymoron. That’s like being called a Nazi Jew. The whole definition of redneck trash is someone who is racist against black people but in “Gabe lies” everything is the opposite. Maybe that’s why he is so crazy. In his crazy world…
    Euroleague is better than the NBA
    Spanoulis is one of the best players in the world
    Redneck trash are prejudice against white people
    the world is flat
    etc, etc…
    Reply Cancel
    - Rambaldi
      12 years ago
      A redneck is someone who takes his own personal opinion and his own personal world paradigm as a fact, even if it is totally wrong and untrue. This freaking’ guy does not even know what a redneck is…………….
      Reply Cancel
  - Rambaldi
    12 years ago
    Newsflash moron, averaging AVERAGING 9.6 points per game, IS in fact “averaging double figures”.
    
    Can this guy get ANY dumber? is it even possible?
    Reply Cancel
Rambaldi
12 years ago
I wanted to give an update on how much of a liar and troll Gabe is……

And I quote Gabe,

“If Nenad Krstic can be the First Team All-Euroleague center, then I guarantee that Hilton Armstrong will definitely be at least the First Team All-Euroleague center, and maybe even the Euroleague MVP. Take any big man that was ever at any time a rotation center in the NBA, like Armstrong was, and put him in the Euroleague, he will automatically and instantly be the best center in that joke scrub league.

I am absolutely convinced, positive, and sure of this. So much so, that I can say with absolute 100% certainty, that Hilton Armstrong will be the First team All-Euroleague center this year. Hell, if Nenad Krstic can do it, I bet every single center in the entire NBA would do it also.”

—>

UPDATE:

http://www.eurohoops.net/2012/10/flopping/11495

Armstrong in danger…
on October 23rd, 2012 | 0 comments
Armstrong in danger…

Βy Nikos Varlas/ varlas@eurohoops.net

American center Hilton Armstrong was signed by Panathinaikos in order to be a starter. He had a good season in France as a player of ASVEL, but the way his new coach Argiris Pedoulakis uses him, indicates that there is an imminent danger for his place in the team’s roster.

In the big game against Olympiacos, Armstrong was a starter, but before the first five minutes of the game, he was subbed and never played again. The same pattern was repeated before in the Euroleague game against Cantu.

Even in the easy game against Aris, for the 1st gameday in Greek League, Armstrong had very limited minutes, and it’s clear that his coach’s intention is to replace him and continue the season with the minutes at position “5” divided between Sofoklis Shortsanitis and Stephane Lasme, who was used 22 minutes against Olympiacos, even though he is still adapting to his new team.

The decision seems to be now at the hands of the team’s owner, Dimitris Giannakopoulos. If he gives his consent, then Armstrong will be heading to the exit, and the new question will be what kind of player Panathinaikos will add, one other big, or maybe one more guard able to create for his teammates in offense.

>

So what I learned from the self-described “truth teller” and “Euroleague basketball expert” Gabe in this site was that Hilton Armstrong was for sure, 100% going to be the best center in the Euroleague, and that he was definitely going to be voted as such……..

And what I learned here is that apparently, being the “for sure 100% best center in Euroleague” means that your coach things you suck so bad that he won’t hardly play you, and that you only have to average 1.0 points and 0.5 rebounds per game, to be the “100% for sure best center in the NBA”.

Link to prove the stats BTW —>

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003331&clubcode=PAN

Obviously, Gabe is an unparallelled bastion of pure truth telling and Euroleague basketball knowledge. What in the world would this site do without him and his incredible basketball knowledge and insight?
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mike
12 years ago
Just as predicted, Farmar is suddenly thrust into an NBA icon. LOL. You guys are so predictable!

Until Gabe mentioned it above, I didn’t even know Farmar was leading the Euroleague in points and index rating. Wow, now that’s an eye opener on the gap between the two leagues!
Jordan Farmar leading a league in points?! Wow!
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NBA Sucks Compared To Euroleague
12 years ago
mike you are huge idiot. I find you even worse than Gabe. I have never seen you make even one post here that remotely touched on the truth or a fact.

Bottom line, Euroleague is a way better league than the NBA is. I have been following NBA since the 1980s and it’s definitely total shit compared to today’s Euroleague. The difference in the two leagues is that the NBA is a scripted and rigged joke where defense is outlawed and where the refs pick which players and teams to help. Where the coaches only utilize certain players that the league wants to market.

Where the rules and the reffing make it the softest pro basketball league, with the worst defense of any serious pro basketball league on the planet. Where the games take forever because of endless free throws, timeouts and commercials.

Where the season drags on for months on end with one totally meaningless game after another, where neither team is hardly trying at all, and where no player ever even attempts defense in the entire game.

Where the first couple of rounds of the playoffs are ridiculously long, boring, predictable, and crappy. Where the commissioner acts like he is some kind of mafioso godfather. Where what ESPN, TNT, Nike, Gatorade, etc, want for marketing takes presence over the quality and integrity of the game.

Where the champions of a the USA and Canada idiotically proclaim to the world that they are “world champions” and then get laughed at and mocked for days on end all around the world for saying it.

Where incredibly greedy owners like Mark Cuban do everything in their power to ruin the sport for monetary reasons. Where you have half empty arenas, or even 2/3 empty arenas for many teams game after game, but yet where the league claims they were sell outs.

Where you have guaranteed contracts and that means that some of the worst players around stay in the league for years, while some great players never even get a chance. Where the draft is not only rigged, but is also a pure display of how inept the typical NBA general manager is.

Where the league has been proven to have refs that were fixing games, per the FBI investigation of the Tim Donaghy incident. Where blatant racism is openly pushed as an open agenda throughout the whole league. “White guys can’t play”. “It’s a black man’s game”, etc.

Where the US House investigation and WADA both stated that the NBA does NOT test for designer steroids or HGH and that dozens of performance enhancing substances that are banned in other leagues are not even tested for in the NBA.

The list goes on and on and on. The NBA is an entertainment show. It’s not a real competitive sport. The Euroleague IS a competitive sport. That IS the difference between the two leagues.

I’ve never met a single basketball purist that can stand today’s NBA. They all much prefer the NCAA, FIBA, the Olympics, and European club basketball over the current NBA. The NBA has become an absolute joke. Even in the USA it’s become a complete afterthought to the vast majority of sports fans.

I am AMERICAN. So don’t even try to call me a “Euro nut”, like you do to those other guys here. The NBA in its current form is absolute trash.
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mike
12 years ago
Well, at least I’m making progress. It used to be you just called me a sock puppet of Gabe or one of his minions. Now, you think I’m worse that Gabe. Great! For me, this is a badge of honor.

How’s your terrorist front coming along? You know, the one you run by yourself from your mom’s basement? The SLF(Spanoulis Liberation Front). LOL
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G
12 years ago
10th place didn’t seem bad, but you’ll probably have to move Zalgiris up pretty soon. 🙂 Who knows, maybe it’s even the surprise of 1998/99 in the making once again?.. 😉

Though you should probably wait till Sunday’s VTB match vs CSKA to see where exactly to put us.
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G
12 years ago
So, it’s Zalgiris 76 – CSKA 66, and we even played without Popovic. No doubt you should put us in the top 4, at least at the moment.
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Fantasy Basketball
12 years ago
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